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randomtology) wrote2013-05-04 12:39 pm
randomtology) wrote2013-05-04 12:39 pm
Entry tags:
PARADISA ACTIVITY CHECK PETITION
Hi everyone.
So there's been a lot of talk through several channels at overall unhappiness at the current method of AC system. And they are to the point I figured I should probably speak up about it as a slightly more neutral party. The moderators prefer that we keep this to public channels instead of things like Plurk, but with How's the Game being another two months away (and honestly, last How's the Game there was a lack of response to our criticisms of the newest rule changes)- I feel the safest option is to ask for a petition which will be shown to the mods at a later date through the proper channels.
To explain the problem simply is this: since the start of Paradisa the AC rule has been 2 posts a month. You could do this with logs, joint posts, private posts or in worst case scenario- offer up a number of threads that showed you are still playing in the game.
Now this system worked great...when the game was larger and much faster paced. But over the past couple years the game has slowed and the character base has become smaller. This means there's a lot less to post about for many characters, and so it's harder for many characters to pass AC (even by threads because if there's less posts- there's less ways to make threads!). As some may have noticed, more and more people have been appearing on the Activity Check post this past year than ever before.
To make it even worse, the mods recently made it even harder for us to pass AC by removing Private Posts and reducing the worth of participation in logs. Muns, despite asking for a vote on this, were given no voice in this decision.
This petition is not asking for an overthrow of the mods or to stir up wank or anything like that- but to have either a discussion or change in the AC policy to accommodate the current pace of the game- not make it harder. That way us as RPers can possibly worry less about making AC and more about enjoying the game.
Some possible ideas for the mods to consider is as followed (and others are free to add):
If you wish to sign this petition, please comment below with your mun name and characters play. Former players are allowed to sign if you feel AC affected your time in Paradisa or you considerations for rejoining the game. If you have any additional remarks or statements, please feel free to state them. Any wank, flaming, or offensive remarks will not be tolerated. This is a place for civil input, not rage.
Thank you.
So there's been a lot of talk through several channels at overall unhappiness at the current method of AC system. And they are to the point I figured I should probably speak up about it as a slightly more neutral party. The moderators prefer that we keep this to public channels instead of things like Plurk, but with How's the Game being another two months away (and honestly, last How's the Game there was a lack of response to our criticisms of the newest rule changes)- I feel the safest option is to ask for a petition which will be shown to the mods at a later date through the proper channels.
To explain the problem simply is this: since the start of Paradisa the AC rule has been 2 posts a month. You could do this with logs, joint posts, private posts or in worst case scenario- offer up a number of threads that showed you are still playing in the game.
Now this system worked great...when the game was larger and much faster paced. But over the past couple years the game has slowed and the character base has become smaller. This means there's a lot less to post about for many characters, and so it's harder for many characters to pass AC (even by threads because if there's less posts- there's less ways to make threads!). As some may have noticed, more and more people have been appearing on the Activity Check post this past year than ever before.
To make it even worse, the mods recently made it even harder for us to pass AC by removing Private Posts and reducing the worth of participation in logs. Muns, despite asking for a vote on this, were given no voice in this decision.
This petition is not asking for an overthrow of the mods or to stir up wank or anything like that- but to have either a discussion or change in the AC policy to accommodate the current pace of the game- not make it harder. That way us as RPers can possibly worry less about making AC and more about enjoying the game.
Some possible ideas for the mods to consider is as followed (and others are free to add):
► Bring back Private Posts and make Participation in Logs still count for one post.
► Cut the Post Requirement in Half to One Public Post with comments responded, or one post and some threads.
► Require people to post their own activity for the month to the AC instead of only people without two posts.
► Make a clearer thread count requirement.
If you wish to sign this petition, please comment below with your mun name and characters play. Former players are allowed to sign if you feel AC affected your time in Paradisa or you considerations for rejoining the game. If you have any additional remarks or statements, please feel free to state them. Any wank, flaming, or offensive remarks will not be tolerated. This is a place for civil input, not rage.
Thank you.
/casually hancocks all over the place
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I've made some pretty lengthy discussions about the AC system in the past, and as a former player / somebody who's always considering reapplying, it has and will affect me.
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Poke me if/when the discussion comes up so I can actually be productive and give input!
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I know in the past we've had a debate about comment count and how much is too much and too little, but it's to the point where with AC and a half being a thing and the lack of private posts we need one. It's hard enough to eyeball how many comments we can use for AC as it is without a number, for anyone taking a strike so to say it gets even harder. Even if that number is spread out over a certain number of threads (20 comments over three threads or 30 comments over three threads), a number would be easier (30 comments over three threads for AC and for AC and a half could be 45 comments over 5 or something).
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Being in games that count threads as AC and require their players to post their proof has made me realize it is much more effective than Paradisa's current system. I am eying to come back and would love to see a change in the current system.
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I'd love to see more discussion on this.
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Not sure if I'm too hot over I MUST MAKE A POST thing, or if I'm just misunderstanding that. oh well.
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My main concern is the lack of discussion and the lack of consistency. If we're going to make more people depend on threads (by removing log and post options) then there really needs to be more than this vague 'whatever we feel is enough' policy we currently have in regards to threads. It's not being applied consistently, or in line with what's still stated in the AC rules. Outside this, I think our mods are pretty fantastic, which is why I'm concerned over all this.
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As someone who usually has an issue with AC, I feel that a reform, reversion or at the very least, a discussion about AC improvement would help me rather than hurt me.
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I agree with most of this, especially the last two points. While I understand why the mods would be hesitant to lay down a hard and fast number (especially since, say, five comments in plot-heavy thread can be more significant than five comments in a smalltalk thread), I think that having a suggested range might be a good idea. That way, there's still some wriggle room, but the players still have a clearer idea of what the mods are looking for. Also, including comments in the AC would encourage tagging out, which is a big plus in my book.
However, I have to admit, I do disagree on the first point. My main issue is the matter of private posts. While they can be a great option for less outgoing characters to make AC, they can also be abused to character squat, and I'd like to see something in place to make sure they aren't overused. I remember seeing some discussion, though, where someone suggested that they can be used for one proof, and one proof only, which sounds like a pretty good compromise.
As for participation in logs, I have some mixed feelings. On the one hand, participating in an open log that someone else has put up still takes less effort for those tagging in than the player who posted it, and it feels a little cheap to equate the two (especially if the OP has a large number of threads to respond to). I'm also not sure if it's necessary to include it as a post replacement if comment threads are going to be included in AC. On the other hand, it still takes more effort than tagging around the journals, and most importantly, it could encourage more tagging out and use of the log comm. Basically, I'm not hankering to change how log comments are counted for AC, but I can see the benefits, so I'm not going to be bothered if it is changed.
But despite this, I still think that further discussion on the matter of AC is a very good idea, and I hope it's something we can work out in the next HTG post.
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One of the reasons I had to drop was because other areas of my life suddenly got busier. While this has been an overall good thing, it also meant I could no longer keep up with a game that requires full posts only as AC. Especially with the character I played, who was rather stoic and anti-social, there was only so much I could do per month to get her to do things publicly instead of seeking out others for conversation or activity without rehashing ideas indefinitely, which is about the point I got to. It was getting borderline OOC and stifling creativity for me.
I understand you want to make sure we're active and keep the game alive and fresh, but there's only so much we all can do in our given time. Either lowering AC or having much more open ways to make it would benefit the game tremendously. A flexible game makes for a happy game.
Other games do it, and I know Paradisa could too. I do miss this place, but as is I know if I came back, I'd be on the AC miss list almost right away with it as is. The game can only grow and be better with it; there is no downside. Flakes exist in most games but it's never because of flexible options.
Thank you for listening.
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Between the two required posts per month or the alternative ill-defined thread count requirement, Paradisa's AC was the major contributing factor to why I had to reluctantly drop Para (twice). While I'd enjoyed playing in the game in the past, I haven't considered returning because of it.
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AC requirements are a part of why I left; they are not the only reason but my work schedule is admittedly insane right now which makes any sort of AC hard, and the inconsistency is bothersome. Some points in particular:
Private posts are important to characters who are not canonly very outgoing. I don't think they should be relied upon every AC, but to count as one point every other month for a character would be fine, I would think. I'd mention too the suggestion possibly to make it a post with more depth than a two- or three-liner to the journal in order to count.
Putting a comment count requirement on threads gets tricky, as dependent on writing style and how plot-heavy a thread is, two people could have more happen in three comments than two other people in twenty. Let's use 10 as a magic example number: is it fair to pass a thread that's ten comments of one- or two-sentence responses and fail a thread of eight comments that are each five and six paragraphs and a couple thousand words? If a number is put to the comment count, I'd recommend it as a range and not a fixed value. I think this is probably part of the spirit of the "whatever we feel is enough" attitude that is taken to using threads as AC, but I also feel that putting a target number to it will help.
It is harder to make AC with a smaller playerbase -- I felt myself running out of things to do, and running out of interest in all the "I'm bored" posts characters were making (posts that may, in some cases, have been made only to make AC). I feel that there does need to be an adjustment to the AC, but I also wouldn't commit to coming back whether or not it changes -- in other words, it would not at this point influence me to or dissuade me from rejoining the game.
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Like everyone else here, I love our mods and think they do a fabulous job. But I do think this warrants further discussion for many of the same reasons everybody's already stating.
I don't want people exploiting open logs or private posts to squat on characters without tagging around either, but there are plenty of ideas here that might still prevent that while making people more comfortable with the game in general.
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AC is always a big part of whether I join a game or not as you can't expect someone to just be in your game and have all your time for that game. But private posts aren't always good for that. I've known people who have tagged with only one person for months to squat and it's not fair. Using that system is great for some people but not others. So perhaps if they do add that, it's on a bi monthly basis? You can have a private post one month but you must have a public post the next to make sure you're actually keep up with more than one character as CR. As for participation in logs, there might be a good idea for a thread count there too. What counts as participation? One tag? Two, three, etc?
I do like the idea of posting your own AC rather than the mods doing it. This gives us, the muns, more power and responsibility over our own activity and would lessen mod tasks. We could show them what we're doing instead of them looking everywhere and the possibility of them missing something.
This is just some thoughts of someone who loves the idea of the game and has wondered about coming back. I hope it makes sense and helps those already in the game. :)
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I often found that I'd choose to hiatus for the month when I was feeling less capable of making posts even though I was able to actively tag out and keep up with my CR, simply because it was hard to think up posts and sometimes felt redundant, due to the AC policy.
I also found that the comm seemed to be spammed a LOT towards the end of the month with posts that didn't get tagged back like they should have in a rush to make AC - and even without that, there was a lot of spamming of the comm in general because when in doubt, people would always make new posts to insure they had AC rather than using the same post to continue their activity into an action thread, etc. It always seemed unnecessary.
Additionally, the post system always seemed easy to scam. There were a lot of people I know who would post up in the main comm or in the logs comm and hardly tag either back but not do anything outside of that either - they wouldn't keep up with their CR this way, because CR is kept up with by tagging INTO posts, not just making them.
Lastly, limiting log participation as part of activity is tough because there are so many characters who simply WOULDN'T use the journals a lot, or who wouldn't be that social, who can function better in a log format.
I think people should be able to post their own activity and it should be a combination of a post (or YOU posting a log) and a thread of like 10+ comments from your character (19-20 comments total, or log participation), personally, because game activity as a whole is better encouraged through mixed activity means.
I don't think private posts should count, personally - I think that's a good policy, unless you're referring to entirely filtered posts? But wholly private posts don't allow for interaction, which is the point of AC - ensuring that you're interacting with the game still. If it's filtered entirely to friends and does have actual CR interaction, though, that should count.
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What I'd like to see:
-Open and closed logs to count the same way (I'm not particular on which way, but a reply to a closed log shouldn't count as a full piece of activity and a reply to an open one not)
-Defined comment amount (either number of threads or number of comments in a single thread)
-Everyone has to post AC (because right now, the system discourages tagging out)
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Saffy (Lloyd Irving & Jack Frost)